I... yeah. What br said about the distancing pov ...

2009-02-10T16:07:00.000-08:00

I... yeah. What br said about the distancing pov and the amount of back story.

All we really need to know is that Sophie and Gavin had a thing in Ireland three years ago. Everything else you can show us through the scene. For example, instead of telling us Rogue's audience are college kids, show us that those bubbly girls at the door all have matching sorority tank tops. Look for ways to salt information into the scene. Your audience will feel smarter and invest more into the story if you let them figure things out for themselves.

Also, one quibble - I've never been backstage at a major theater or with a touring band, but I used to be a sound tech for a tiny weekly club in L.A. After the show, the techies and the roadies weren't hanging out with the talent - we were striking the stage as fast as possible so we could all go home.

You are very welcome. :)I'm glad that my comments ...

2009-02-09T16:32:00.000-08:00

You are very welcome. :)

I'm glad that my comments were helpful.

Thanks, br drager, for the detailed reading - that...

2009-02-09T09:04:00.000-08:00

Thanks, br drager, for the detailed reading - that's just what I was hoping for. I've got work to do, but a clear direction now.

Oh, I forgot one that I wanted to mention . . . :)...

2009-02-09T01:57:00.000-08:00

Oh, I forgot one that I wanted to mention . . . :)

7.) out of time sequence -- author intrusion.
When I read the following:
"Instead, as would become the case in the years to come, it was Conor who was by her side."
I found that jarring, for that sounds like the author is intruding into the scene to tell the reader something that the character Sophie is not aware of at this time.

I had assumed that the story POV was a form of close 3rd limited. But that sentence is something that is more appropriate for a type of (limited) omniscient POV story, where there is an omniscient narrator that knows more than the characters that are currently living their scenes. imo.

Good luck. :)

Okay, I'll start off with a few comments. I'm not ...

2009-02-09T01:44:00.000-08:00

Okay, I'll start off with a few comments. I'm not sure what all type of comments you're look for, so I'll start with these . . .

1.) A good point: I did a quick read, and I wasn't immediately jarred by a bunch of misspellings, typos, or grammar mess ups. Which is a pleasant surprise. So, good job! :)

Really, I'm serious. Less than five percent of the stuff I see has somewhat cleanly written prose. Poorly written prose makes it hard for me to concentrate on the story issues.

2.) pov. I was kinda assuming that perhaps this scene was intended to be in Sophie's pov. But the last line of the chapter seemed to be in Conor's pov. (And there were some lines in the middle that seemed to be coming from the author instead of from Sophie's pov.)

3.) first page. The flashback stuff and background info telling to the reader seemed to take up too much of the first page, imo. I like the rule-of-thumb that all the prose in a scene that doesn't advance that scene in real time ought to be less than one-fourth of the word count.

And that the whole first page ought to be only realtime stuff (no flashbacks, almost no info telling to the reader), and some suggest that the restriction should be for the first five pages or more. I.e., Inside the first five pages, narrative summary is not a writer's friend. I've seen something like that on some blogs and in some writing books. :)

In this case, the real time scene stuff included the first sentence, and then it included the stuff starting with the fourth paragraph ("It was pure luck that ..."). Now, unfortunately, when I started reading that 4th paragraph, I wasn't sure if the real time scene was now progressing. If you put those two sentences next to each other,
e.g.,
* * * Sophie Kavanagh snaked her way through the maze of hallways at the Wiltern Theatre, nervously fingering the forged backstage pass around her neck.
It was pure luck that Sophie rounded a corner to find a large bouncer in front of a door marked “Talent.” * * *
You might notice that the transition between the two seems to be rough. That the reader might not be aware that, in this scene, that Sophie snaked through the halls, and then she rounded a corner to find a bouncer blocking her way.

One quick possible suggestion is that maybe your scene might start with those above two lines, and then let your real scene unfold (or progress, or move forward) in real time, and then later, try to weave in the bits of info that you are "telling" in the rest of paragraph 1 and telling to the reader in paragraphs 2 and 3, and try to do it without stopping the real time clock of the scene.

4.) distancing pov. There's a lot of "telling" in the prose, imo. I'd rather that there be a closer subjective pov, where the reader experiences the events in the story at the same time as the pov character (Sophie) is experiencing them.
e.g.,
"It was pure luck that Sophie ..."; "But she quickly realized that ..."; "Sophie took a moment to take in the activity ..."

What I mean is, like for the last example, just "show" what Sophie took in, which is what you did in the rest of paragraph 6. (Maybe merely delete that first sentence of that paragraph.)

And in the example before that, instead of telling the reader that Sophie quickly realized something, just show what she is realizing as she is realizing it. That is, perhaps merely delete that phrase "But she quickly realized that".

5.) adverbs. Perhaps revisit some of their usages, for maybe some could be removed without hurting the meaning of the prose, and thus, the prose might seem a bit more powerful.
E.g.,
"At the sound of a sharp burst of laughter, Sophie instinctively looked for Gavin as the source of the entertainment."

Perhaps delete "instinctively" out of it, or else use a different phrase. I often see that adverb "instinctively" kinda overly used, imo, and it tends to grab my attention (in a non-good way).

6.) Perhaps try to tweak out some of the explicit filtering phrases. That would tend to help keep the reader closer to the pov character, imo.
Examples of explicit filtering phrases: she noticed, she realized, she looked, she saw, she felt.
Some of those phrases, now and then, is probably okay, but when there are too many, then they tend to keep the reader at a distance from your pov character. Also, when a sentence is tweaked so that the phrase is removed, the result is often a tighter, stronger sentence; a sentence that "shows" the reader what the pov character is experiencing or seeing at that moment. imo.
e.g.,
"She saw his eyes linger on the hint of cleavage beneath the backstage pass she still wore."

A possible tweak could be:
"His eyes lingered on the hint of her cleavage beneath her backstage pass."

Since the reader is already inside Sophie's pov, the reader will assume that Sophie is noticing that Conor's eyes are checking out her boobs. That the reader is experiencing this event as though he/she is Sophie. When the explicit filtering phrase "She saw" is inserted in there, that phrase tends to kinda remind the reader that he/she is not really that character Sophie. And that phrase is sort of a form of telling the reader something (that Sophie was seeing). While when that phrase is deleted, what remains is a form of "showing" within the pov character's perspective. imo.

Okayee . . . this is probably enough for now, I'd suspect. :)

Of course, all my comments in this post are only the opinions of one reader.

Good luck.

Comments on Crapometer: Pages!

I... yeah. What br said about the distancing pov ...

You are very welcome. :)I'm glad that my comments ...

Thanks, br drager, for the detailed reading - that...

Oh, I forgot one that I wanted to mention . . . :)...

Okay, I'll start off with a few comments. I'm not ...